AndyMac
Moderator
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 51
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Reply with quote | #1 |
Hi All Posters and Voyeur's,
Looking at the teams currently involved in both Tuesdays and Thursday League, it appears that we have cause for concern as to where we are heading? Tuesday's have just lost another team (2 this season), with a 3rd struggling to field the players, Thursday League, lost one with a couple more that may not make it to the end. From a couple of seasons ago, where you needed 9 players (Tuesday) now down to 7, Thursday remains unchanged, still need 8 for a match.
I know proposals were in at the last AGM, to change format, (Thursday) but was thrown out. Should we be looking at reducing it even further on both nights, Thursday League IMO is definitely in need of reducing. Is it the smoking Ban, or just players seem to be losing interest??
A credit crunching format is needed, as said to me to day by a good friend.
Your thoughts?
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Sashie
Moderator
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 29
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Reply with quote | #2 |
I've been thinking the same chap, especially after the Kendal failed to get a team on Tuesday.
About the best i keep coming up with (at the moment) is for both leagues to be best of 9 games, eliminating the draw on a Tuesday. Format to be 6 singles and 3 doubles, or if you want to include the draw possibility, then maybe have one treble to make it up to the 10 games?
This obviously reduces the required players down to a minimum of 6, from 7 on a Tuesday & 8 on a Thursday.
Thing is, especially with the Thursday League, people don't seem to want to change the format, admittedly it is tried and tested and everyone knows where they stand.
It is a bit worrying though.
Anyway, that's my off the top off my head opinion for now.
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dannyking
Registered: 19/02/09
Posts: 1
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Reply with quote | #3 |
Is it any wonder players/teams are pulling out of your league. Any possible new teams/players would be well and truly put off from just reading the comments from moderators and league officials. Shame on you!. Mr robinson your posts raised a very interesting a valid point concerning the open board situation and i must say i totally agree with you sir.
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paulrobinson
Registered: 25/07/08
Posts: 78
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Reply with quote | #4 |
good afternoon all,
my proposal is as it has always been!,split the league
into 2 leagues so the,so called lesser teams have something to play for,
i do believe that these teams are getting despondent due to not having
anything to play for!,
the other thing you can do!,is to make it that once the league has started
as long as any team have enough players to actually win the game!,
it should be allowed to continue.
dear Mr Danny king (sir),thank you for them kind words,it just reminded me
why i let you beat me in the super-league last
season!!(only joking!)
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Sashie
Moderator
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 29
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Reply with quote | #5 |
I agree, in principal, that could work, but only if there were enough teams participating in the first place.
If there were 20 teams involved, yes, two leagues of 10 would be great, as it was 4 or 5 years ago, but the fact is we currently only have 12 or 13 teams for both leagues.
Which would mean two leagues of 6 (for 12 teams obviously), with each team playing each other 4 times (20 games) to generate a good season.
Whether that is a problem or not, i honestly don't know?
But this is the beauty of the message board, to voice our opinions and listen to others
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paulrobinson
Registered: 25/07/08
Posts: 78
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Reply with quote | #6 |
hi sashie,
what about making it that you play each other 3 times,which
would shorten the league,making it finish a bit earlier.
to play each other 3 times and with all the cup games plus the tournament's
that would be plenty!
it would also free up people to go on holiday early in the year!,where the
prices our cheaper!,a bonus for all in the time of the credit crunch!!!!
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JohnPaine
Moderator
Registered: 23/09/07
Posts: 49
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Reply with quote | #7 |
Couldn't agree more Mr Robinson. Cough cough!!!!!!!!
The league seasons have gradually been getting longer and longer so even if there was 2 leagues of say 6 or 7 teams, even playing each other twice then a shoter season wouldnt do any harm at all. Another cup comp could easily be slotted in if required.
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paulrobinson
Registered: 25/07/08
Posts: 78
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Reply with quote | #8 |
good morning all,
does anyone else have any views on this matter!,
or can someone put a proposal in writing,ready for the next A.G.M.
it would be nice to get things up and running ready for next season,
last thing i would like to see is for it to be thrown out of the A.G.M.
because its not been put in writing!
look forward to any replies on this subject!
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tonynorman
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 47
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Reply with quote | #9 |
I must re-iterate that the past 3 AGMs i have wanted to shorten the season length by introducing the PROVEN thursday finals night into tuesdays,but have been poo pooed each time ,we have a 3 board venue at the ROMANS and this would produce better support from players etc .even have a fund raising raffle for the league to put towards the cost of the trophies (and maybe have marble ones!!)look what support we got for the champs of champs purely because of an adequate venue (smoking)whoever gave the idea to break the league program up with 2 consecutive comps,no wonder teams lose interest,and as far as this 7 or 14 day ruling crap ,get as many as you can at the AGM and make the rules on the night ,(fred doesnt carry minutes anyway )those keen and interested should make the AGM by hook or by crook and deserve to make the rules therefore!!we must adapt to the current climate to keep the league going ,even if it means using the best venues all the time.we should give something back to the players that support the league and give them the best venues where possible . |
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motherhen
Registered: 24/09/07
Posts: 31
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Reply with quote | #10 |
Well Tony, for someone who has thrown rules and regulations at us for years, suddenly you want to throw them out the window and have a free for all. As you are well aware, the proposal rule at the AGM is there for a reason. Mainly to allow members to see what is going to be discussed beforehand and to think about their own feelings on the matter. Rules, as you are always telling us, are there for a reason, so if you are wanting to change the constitution or format of the Tuesday League, you must come up with ideas before hand so that they can be published and give everyone a chance to make their own minds on what they would like, and not wait until the AGM itself and as normally happens, get ‘bullied’ into something they might not like or fully understand on this night. However, saying that, you are within your rights to put in a rule change prior to the allotted time before the next AGM, to throw the rules etc. and I am sure the rest of the teams will discuss it and agree on the appropriate action. Is there anything further you would like clarified? MH |
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H2O
Registered: 24/09/07
Posts: 19
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Reply with quote | #11 |
Quality post! How to win Friends and influence people Tony. not!!!! |
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paulrobinson
Registered: 25/07/08
Posts: 78
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Reply with quote | #12 |
hi all,
here we go again,getting all personal!,can we not start to sing from
the same hymn sheet!,because i feel nothing will be achieved with
this argumentative attitude!,
if people agree with one or two of the proposals,then would someone
put it in writing ready for the next A.G.M.
i do feel that for both the Tuesday and Thursday league to get
stronger and running at its full potential we need to work harder
at getting on!!
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AndyMac
Moderator
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 51
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Reply with quote | #13 |
Some interesting ideas so far.
Personally i feel a split into divisions is needed, providing we could get adequate numbers in each division. With currently 12 or 13 being split into 2, i feel for a winter season, playing only once, home and away, giving 10 league matches is far to short for a winter season. Yes, another Cup could be put in, but still feel its to short. On the other hand, 20 league matches, if you played 4 times would be too much, if looking to shorten the season. But will it cure the fact that teams are struggling to field players?, probably not, in my view.
The problems seems to lie with pubs struggling in general to get people through the doors. A lot of the older players (I don't mean by age, i mean established) seem to have disappeared off the scene, and although a lot of new, good players are around, they seem to be few and far between and not enough of them to help the number who are 'packing' the game up. Darts is going into the big time, becoming a major sport with TV and the armchair fan but while there many thousands and thousands who love the game of darts on TV, only a very small percentage take the game up in the pubs.
And Paul, i agree, we all need to start getting on with each other, and start being civil and supporting opinions rather than insulting. Thank you to MH, for pointing out the Tuesday League, like the Thursday League also, is a Democratic League and Rules Changes and Motions need be sanctioned the correct way.
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AndyMac
Moderator
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 51
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Reply with quote | #14 |
Quote: Originally Posted by tonynorman I must re-iterate that the past 3 AGMs i have wanted to shorten the season length by introducing the PROVEN thursday finals night into tuesdays,but have been poo pooed each time ,we have a 3 board venue at the ROMANS and this would produce better support from players etc .even have a fund raising raffle for the league to put towards the cost of the trophies (and maybe have marble ones!!)look what support we got for the champs of champs purely because of an adequate venue (smoking)whoever gave the idea to break the league program up with 2 consecutive comps,no wonder teams lose interest,and as far as this 7 or 14 day ruling crap ,get as many as you can at the AGM and make the rules on the night ,(fred doesnt carry minutes anyway )those keen and interested should make the AGM by hook or by crook and deserve to make the rules therefore!!we must adapt to the current climate to keep the league going ,even if it means using the best venues all the time.we should give something back to the players that support the league and give them the best venues where possible .
I will agree tony, Thursday Finals night does work. But you need to consider this. With the Tuesday League all comps (where possible) are taken down to the last 8, thus doubling your chances of being involved in the finals night itself. With Thursday, apart from the Men's Singles all go down to the last 4 only, with ladies pairs last 2. If you was to keep the current qualifying criteria and play all on one night, as your suggesting, you would need more than 3 boards. 5 or 6 even. In principle i agree, would take some tweaking though.
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paulrobinson
Registered: 25/07/08
Posts: 78
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Reply with quote | #15 |
hi Andy,
you say that playing each other twice is not enough and playing
each other four times is too much!,based on having 6 teams in each league,
i did mention in one of my other replies that you could play each other
three times!!,this would allow you to finish the league by march and
freeing people for early year bargain holiday's!
THE CREDIT CRUNCH IS UPON US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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AndyMac
Moderator
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 51
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Reply with quote | #16 |
Yes, i think i mentioned that in another thread, playing 3 times.
The only problem is the way the fixtures would be generated. Out of the 7 teams playing, 5 would get 9 home and 9 away games. One would get 12 home and 6 away the other 6 home 12 away. It would be something along those lines, but without looking into it, best i can come up with right now,
Edit: I forgot to say, that i would not rule this one out, good idea, that would need looking further into.
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paulrobinson
Registered: 25/07/08
Posts: 78
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Reply with quote | #17 |
only me again,
also i did mention in another reply that once the league has
started!,as long as you have enough players to win the game!,the match
should be allowed to continue!,
for teams to claim matches because a team only have 5 or 6 players is
not fare to the rest of the teams as well as the team with only 5 or 6
players!,these teams that turn up short but still have enough players
to win the match,in my eyes are being treated un-fairly!!!!due to the
current rules!
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AndyMac
Moderator
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 51
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Reply with quote | #18 |
totally agree, whilst it is possible to win a game, the match should go ahead. Another thing with regards to this, is walkovers. Too many happening as of late.
Putting my neck on line here, but how about saying that any walkover awarded will just be awarded the min games needed for the win.
Example: Best of 11, as per Thursday Format.
Team who is claiming W/O, either by default or their choice get 2 points as they should do anyway, plus a 6-0 win, not the 11-0 win, currently on offer. If you turn up, by all means claim the games were the players are missing. Anyway, off to crawley now for darts, i will catch up in the morning
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paulrobinson
Registered: 25/07/08
Posts: 78
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Reply with quote | #19 |
totally agree with that Mr mac,
so we seem to have it sorted!,will you but
the proposal's disused in writing for the next A.G.M.or shall i.
any objections anyone!
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tonynorman
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 47
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Reply with quote | #20 |
Thanks irene well put,well its down to people to be bothered to do the letter writing and forward the proposals and not like previous years moan about stuff and not write letters and not even turn up!! although everyone has valid points etc i still feel turning up with a dart team of 4 players etc makes a mockery of the whole playing system cos it also opens up the can of worms for creating a super 4 man team to go and go glory hunting ,the idea of having a team as big as possible is to show the odds that teams can drop points by the law of averages that people do lose if you get my meaning.you could get 20x teams of 4 yet 10 x teams of 8,if possible,thing is if pubs cant make teams they cant make teams ,then you have 6x full teams play each other 4 times end of .tony
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paulrobinson
Registered: 25/07/08
Posts: 78
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Reply with quote | #21 |
hi tony,
you have some good points there regarding super teams of 4,
but if you read my proposal,it was suggested that once the league had started if only 4 people turned up they should be allowed to play!!
when a team is signed on to the league it must have the minimum amount
of players required to join the league,ie 9 or 10 what ever it is!!!!
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tonynorman
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 47
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Reply with quote | #22 |
maybe then introduce the allowance of 4 players to play but restrict it to say 4x a season as to stop any possible 4 man super teams etc also change the point structure to a point per game which suits the walkover situation better and of course the 4 man scenario as each game played is worth something so in effect a walkover becomes a disadvantage if you only award 6-0 etc. |
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AndyMac
Moderator
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 51
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Reply with quote | #23 |
What i was trying to say tony is that if a team is struggling one week to field a full side but have enough to technically still win the match, 4 players in this case, they shoul be allowed to play. The best they can hope for is a 6-5 win, as the team will claim the remaining games as the 4 players can only play once in singles and doubles.
Your theory on 4 man super teams is incorrect, as the best this 4 man super team can achieve is a 6-5 EVERY WEEK. Not a very good side, winning 6-5 most weeks is it? It would only take one loss on the night, then they lose
You say claiming a walkover is a disadvantage, well like i said still turn up, play what ever they have, then claim the remaining games at the venue, not take an 11-0 over the phone, as what is happening this season.
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AndyMac
Moderator
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 51
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Reply with quote | #24 |
And me again, you point on the scoring structure i do agree with, Point per game one, season is then a lot closer and will keep a lot of teams in the hunt for a lot longer, eliminating Paul's theory, that teams lose interest quickly.
We have walked away with the Tuesday League, and George the Thursday League. Its a fact both leagues were over at Christmas. Nothing to suggest both teams don't deserve, the George have a great side, as the last 2 seasons showed, also we at the Albion took advantage of the Oak, not being so mighty this year. But it happens every year. You can predict the winners and Runners Up, both leagues, just a matter of sorting out what order. Normally done by the half way point, making the 2nd half of the season a formality
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Sashie
Moderator
Registered: 19/09/07
Posts: 29
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Reply with quote | #25 |
Quote: Originally Posted by AndyMac
And me again, you point on the scoring structure i do agree with, Point per game one, season is then a lot closer and will keep a lot of teams in the hunt for a lot longer, eliminating Paul's theory, that teams lose interest quickly.
We have walked away with the Tuesday League, and George the Thursday League. Its a fact both leagues were over at Christmas. Nothing to suggest both teams don't deserve, the George have a great side, as the last 2 seasons showed, also we at the Albion took advantage of the Oak, not being so mighty this year. But it happens every year. You can predict the winners and Runners Up, both leagues, just a matter of sorting out what order. Normally done by the half way point, making the 2nd half of the season a formality
How about, we reverse the season then mate, start with the second half first, will go down to the wire then ;-)
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